The US is all an illusion...

[Pay_Me]

Are you planning your fall back country, property, lifestyle? I don't think it's all doom and gloom here yet. But the overall downtrend looks possible, so I figure have a back up where things are still growing and not as, misguided as USA. Not knocking everything with it but our financial system is pretty F'd up at this point. Corporatism looks more real everyday, at the expense of the taxpayer.

So are your outs planned?

[MC]

Not yet. I think we have some time but the answer of where is difficult. Where will be secure should the US dump? Every country is heavily tied to the US through investors, exports etc...

Any thoughts fellas?

[DJ South]

Guys, im not sure how this really applies but this thread made me think of something.

As far as applying for citizenship to other countries, do you think it's wise to do so just for the hell of it? Since I think it takes a while (depending on where you apply) it seems like a decent idea just in case you ever plan on visiting/going/investing/living there. I dont even know if its allowed or what. IE: If someday I think it would be cool/smart to live in canada or UK, could I apply for citizenship now?

Its almost like an investment.. kinda

[Pay_Me]

So far my fall back is Chile. Which is tied more to how copper is doing. But since transitioning from dictatorship to democracy have been growing. They're just starting to get things like HELOCS etc down there. But their constitution forces a national surplus on government to keep from overspending.

To quote Chile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The government is required by law to run a fiscal surplus of at least 1% of GDP. In 2006, the Government of Chile ran a surplus of $11.3 billion, equal to almost 8% of GDP. The Government of Chile continues to pay down its foreign debt, with public debt only 3.9% of GDP at the end of 2006.[6]

I still think they need to do more in internal investments of knowledge base economy but looks promising. Plus area looks amazing!

@DJ I don't think it's simple to get citizenship in another country if you can't show that you'll be conducting business or a descendant of that country. But not sure of any specifics. I know I was hoping for an Irish Visa but it's my great grandparents that came from Ireland so I can't get one. Needs to be grandparents.

[MC]

Why is news a joke? They are attaching news to whatever is moving at that given point, often flip flopped many times a day. This was a real treat though, what would you be here...bear or bull based on this news?

And as said prior 1000x, pros use news to flip shares to the hyped up masses. Essentially the entire market is a pump n' dump if you think about it. LOL

[MC]

Preface...this douche was posting OT in a thread about how democrats "own" the media". I was mocking him for being pigeon holed into a set camp etc...

I say---
ZZZZZZZZZ
I'm not biased, I have no political affiliation. I have no set religion. I am a free bird limited only by the 2 government parties that rule the country, both of which dictate media content to prosper themselves.

Well them and my credit cards limit that they just bumped up. Maybe I'll buy a house on credit cards. LOL

Douche says---
Seriously, does anyone believe this guy is unbiased?

He has no opinion on the second amendment?
No opinion on abortion?
No opinion on the war in Iraq?
No opinion on stem cell research?
No opinion on taxes?

The only way he could possibly be unbiased is if he has no opinion on any of these things.

Which obviously isn't the case.

So what are we to make of such a statement?

It's like the media today, they claim to be unbiased in their reporting. Who do they think they're kidding?

I say---
Ok fruit loop...I'll bite once since you're baiting me so hard after stirring an OT discussion in the index thread to wet your whistle.

Let's clear terminology up first as I see you're confused. NOT BIASED means I can see both sides of the story. I NEVER said I was NOT OPINIONATED. Let's not twist things to suit your needs as is typical with your posts.

To answer your questions and give my OPINIONS...

No opinion on the second amendment?
Honestly I only know the 1st amendment. What is the 2nd? If you ask me a direct question without propaganda surrounding it I'll give an honest answer.

No opinion on abortion?
NOPE...we'll I think it's the woman's choice. But as for right or wrong I could care less. I don't knock people up so I have no reason to have feelings here.

No opinion on the war in Iraq?
I do NOT agree with the war in Iraq. It was un-warranted and serves a purpose much different than the WMD bull$hit they purport IMO. If there was justification, and there really could have been I suppose, I don't believe in sending ground troops into an area where the majority have no respect for human life and kill themselves to get 100 virgin wives or whatever they believe over there. Air raid...there are no rules in war. Yet the US tries to "play fair" causing more US casualties than is needed.

No opinion on stem cell research?
Again NOPE. I could care less if some idiot wants to clone a dog for $50k. I could care less about making people live even longer with human made body parts and trying to cheat fate. People live way too long as it is, it impacts many resources to keep these walking corpses around in nursing homes for example. Sad but true, and I beg of those close to me to kill me before putting me into HELL on earth. If other people want to live to 200 and invest in that fine, not for me though.

No opinion on taxes?
LOL, well I feel the wealthy should cover more the burden due to the wickedly wide gap in wealth distribution. I have mixed feelings though and see both sides. Why should one that EARNED a fortune be raped for escaping middle class? I'll leave it at that cause this question has infinite gray areas.

Enjoy, I'm sure you'll salivate to see I took the bait. Don't get used to it.

A 3rd party says---
I know i can be hard to understand--but being unbiased and having a personal opinion are two separate unrelated things..they are not one in the same. You CAN have an opinion--like everyone does on every subject..but how you act or treat that opinion and how it effects your judgment is what determines whether you are bias or unbias

UNBIASED can be defined as: fair, equitable, tolerant, neutral. Without bias or prejudice; impartial or objective.

OPINION can be defied as: An opinion is a person's ideas and thoughts towards something. It is an assessment, judgment or evaluation of something. An opinion is not a fact, because opinions are either not falsifiable, or the opinion has not been proven or verified.


The Media is not unbiased--they clearly present their motivations strictly to one side or another.. They are not journalists any more--they are not out t5here to report the truth or the facts for both sides--they clearly want the news to be skewed to one side or another for attractiveness or to serve a purpose instead of letting those watching make a determination for themselves. They are all nothing but editorialists giving their slants--not presenting facts or views for equal consideration. Until a media gives equal time to equal sides or view to a position in its presentations, they can never be unbiased... They are panderers--not journalists....


As for MC..well in my opinion people can have an opinion and still remain objective and unbiased. In other words--someone CAN choose to see a side or have an opinion, but also they can also choose to not be closed-minded to just their own thoughts on the subject and remain unbiased... They can be willing to try and see other views and sides and understand why someone may see something that way and respect that and see how it may apply to a situation and not let their opinions cloud that view to make a solid determinations based on both arguments or sides to an issue... Most people can do that....but not everyone...

Douche says---
<Trimmed down to eliminate babble> As a matter of fact, I think you're so biased, you're unable to see my side of the issue objectively and will stoop to calling me names.

I say---
I never said my opinions were right for you or that you had to agree. I realize the difference between opinion and fact AND bias. I also realize there can be/are opinions presented as facts to sway peoples beliefs. The market is a great example of spin doctors tweaking stats in headlines to suit their needs. I think that's the part we agree on as fact. That the media can and will make a great case for whatever it is they want you to believe. IMO if you have opinions force fed enough they can become assimilated as fact and/or bias thanks to herd mentality. The fact is herd mentality is part of human nature. My firm opinion on this is capitalism has evolved to prey on the human minds inherent weakness. Be it a need to subscribe to a single political party, organized religion, wearing clothes are "in" this season or the need to have a 100" lcd tv to one up your neighbors.

Where our opinion differs is you feel Dems "own" the media, I feel different as stated. I feel the media is a tool used by capitalistic pigs from any and all political parties and walks of life. If Dems owned the media why do we have to put up with all parties propaganda and dirt digging commercials? Here's where I get angry...you or I are meaningless in the big picture. The rich fund the candidate that will better their power and/or financial situation. So this mudslinging is VERY costly and "we the people" can't afford to have any say that is meaningful enough to impact votes. This ties into my last statement that they feed us what they want us to believe on tv. It's legal brainwashing basically, this is why I don't watch commercials or news myself. So he with the most deep pocket funders and slickest PR guy will in all likelihood win. There are plenty of wealthy republicans, it's not just the dems that have money they can use to brainwash through the media tiger.

Yes I call people sarcastic emphatic names when debating. It throws them off their game and it's a psychological tactic I employ from time to time. I'm young but enjoy watching Muhammad Ali videos of his boxing years where he rope-a-doped people and through psych warfare all but ensured his victory. Sad that such a sharp mind ahead of it's time is now rendered useless. Way sidetracked, whoops.

Remember...I wasn't the one coming in an index thread and ranting about a political party, so you start the fire and then whine about how hot it is? I think if you look past the point that I don't have an affiliation to your party of choice you'll see I really think both sides are dirty and reform is needed to bring TRUE "power to the people". As it stands today we have no power, and "absolute power corrupts absolutely".